Back with a Vengeance: Berkeley’s Head Epidemiologist On the Return of Pertussis

Professor Arthur Reingold is Head of Epidemiology at UC Berkeley’s School of Public Health

California: Is whooping cough coming back?

We certainly are having a resurgence of pertussis in the United States, although it’s never gone away. It is a threat to very young infants, particularly those too young to be vaccinated or who have not yet had a complete series of the vaccines. 

Where does pertussis come from? How can you catch it?

There is no nonhuman source of pertussis. Pertussis is limited strictly to humans. There are no animals that are involved in the transmission of pertussis and it’s not in the environment. So it’s 100 percent a disease that is transmitted from one person to another through coughing and sneezing, through the respiratory route. 

Why hasn’t vaccination wiped pertussis out?

You can be immunized and protected against getting the disease, pertussis, but still have the organism in your nose and throat and spread it to others. Or you can have a very mild illness that is caused by pertussis that causes you to cough, and thereby infect others. So the immunity is not 100 percent from the pertussis vaccine. And what it means is any kind of herd immunity—the way we see, for example, much more powerfully with measles—really can’t be relied upon.

What’s herd immunity?

Herd immunity—the idea that some unvaccinated people are protected because other people are vaccinated and thereby are less likely to come in contact with the organism—is very powerful for some infectious diseases and totally nonexistent and irrelevant for other infectious diseases. Pertussis is kind of in the middle.

Herd immunity is important, and one of the strategies we have for trying to prevent disease in newborn infants who are still too young to be vaccinated is called “cocooning,” where we try to vaccinate all of the adults in the household or who are in contact with that infant. But if people think they’re protected because they live in a generally well-vaccinated population like the United States, and therefore are not likely to get pertussis, that would be the wrong message to give, because the reality is the organism circulates freely in the U.S. despite high levels of vaccination.

Why “cocooning”?

In part because we don’t really have another way to protect young babies except to make sure that, A, they are born to well-immunized mothers and have some passive immunity from antibodies they get from their mother. But then it’s going to be several months before they can have had several doses and be protected through immunization, and we know that most babies who get pertussis get it from immediate contact within their family and the adults in their surroundings. So, B, we are trying to at least reduce the likelihood that the adults around a baby could be a source of infection for the baby. 

Who doesn’t get vaccinated?

So the Supreme Court basically ruled 100 years ago that you must allow people exemptions on religious, personal-belief kinds of grounds. So that’s sort of been basically adjudicated a long time ago, is my understanding. There are also rare instances where you shouldn’t vaccinate. For example, [if] you’ve had a severe allergic reaction to a vaccine, you shouldn’t get more doses of that vaccine. So there are some medical counterindications—they are very rare—but they do exist. And then the whole question is, other than medical counterindications, … what types of religious or personal-belief exemptions do you allow?

But the easier it is for parents to opt out, the higher the proportion of parents who do opt out, and within states that make it easier, there are higher levels of opting out. Particularly there are pockets in the states of Washington and Oregon and California, including here in Northern California but also in Southern California, where as many as 20 or 30 percent of parents are opting out of vaccinating their children against pertussis. There are pockets here on the West Coast, and I suppose elsewhere, where that’s really reached an alarming proportion.

From the Summer 2014 Apocalypse issue of California.
Filed under: Science + Health
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Lady, you need to stop being a sheep with your blind following of the other 30% of your state that’s caused these huge outbreaks. If you were really worried about the health of your children instead of the near religious devotion to your fake medical facts you’d wake up and notice how your children are far more likely to die from diseases that can be eliminated through vaccines than of .0000000000000001% of something that may or may not even be in them.
And there is the insulting fear mongering. No outbreaks in my state! And I’m still not injecting my children with human diploid derived from aborted fetal cell line. Gosh, your so aggressive and looking for a fight! I’ve seen three separate friends over the course of twenty years while being a military wife succumb to death after vaccines and in two instances I witnessed brain damage and on 2 separate occasions I watched what they called sudden infant death syndrome. I was there I saw what I saw and those things helped to shale my stance. You can argue all day long, but I know the shape our country health is in. Autism among military dependents are alarmingly even higher than the general populous.
There have been no cases of polio in India since 2009. The 47,500 Indians who suffered paralysis were infected with a non-polio enterovirus (NPEV). It didn’t come from the vaccine. The polio vaccine cannot cause polio. There is an extremely unlikely chance of a severe allergic reaction, but of course if you vaccinate billions of people then you’re going to get those occasional rare reactions. If you didn’t vaccinate, however, the damage done by polio would be massively worse.
You are a liar stile!
Wow, I didn’t notice Sunshine’s rant about chemtrails. I’m convinced now she’s a troll, because anyone this crazy would be institutionalized and unable to access a computer wearing a straitjacket.
To each his own. My kids live a privileged life of an informed mom who only seeks out their best possible outcome. I homeschool, organic, homestead and YES…I praise The Lord. I believe in Jesus Christ and I believe living in America affords me the opportunity to be all of those things. I don’t live in a PC world, as you obviously do not live in a PC world for the things you spit out at me. Do what you will, make decisions as you choose, but cut it out already with your illusionary self imposed authority. You have no authority here and it seems to really get under your skin!
Sunshine, I’m glad you mentioned fluoridation. You know when fluoridation first began? 1946. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It’s incredibly obvious, isn’t it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That’s the way your hard-core Commie works. I first became aware of it during the physical act of love. A profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred. Women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, but I do deny them my essence.
The problem here Sunshine is you seem the think your anecdotal evidence (my kids are never sick, and others’ are always sick) is somehow a validation of your OPINION. It is not only incredibly narrow-minded, but lacks any sort of actual emperical evidence. You and the Jenny McCarthy’s of the world are destroying the public health that has taken dedicated and devoted scientists and doctors decades to build. There are MOUNTAINS of evidence, gathered through actual scientific testing, that shows the safety of vaccines in children. In fact, there is not a single study that shows there is a general danger to anyone from the standard regiment of vaccines. I say general danger, because some people do have allergies to certain chemicals in vaccines. I find it incredibly hypocritical that you berate Dorit for supporting medically valid, and tested facts, while you claim she has no authority. Where exactly is the authority you seem to assert so freely come from? How many vaccines have you tested for safety? What knowledge of the human immune system do you possess? As a scientist I find it incredibly alarming that people with absolutely no scientific training express doubts about the scientific process and community. Your air of superiority reeks of hubris and ignorance. I genuinely feel sorry for you and your children, which is why I am not trying to attack you but just present some flaws in your reasoning, not that you are actually going to consider them with an open mind. Oh and by the way, please step down from your soap box regarding the pharmaceutical companies. Although I freely admit they care more about their bottom line than most people, to suggest that this keeps them “pushing a vaccination agenda” is just preposterous and ignorant. Vaccines account for a TINY TINY fraction of their profits and in most cases are not very profitable. The US government price fixes most vaccines so that they are readily available to people of all income levels. The real money in pharmaceuticals is new patent drugs. No company is getting rich from vaccines and to suggest that this drives there use in medicine is, once again, ignorant. I could continue to poke holes in this “logic” you assert, but after seeing your “Foolish, foolish liberal,” comment it hardly seems worth the time. I understand that you found your answer and only choose to listen to evidence that supports it and deny anything contradictory as big pharma bullying the little guy. We scientists are not afforded such luxuries. I am really only posting this so that anyone who has read your unsubstantiated rants actually have a some informed dialogue. Also, can you explain why the dramatic rise in pertussis infections that have coincided with the rise in the unvaccinated children, has not shown a dramatic drop any afflictions you claim to be the result of vaccinations. If vaccinations cause people to get sick as your anecdote suggests, where is the corresponding drop in infections due to the change in vaccination levels? I’ll hold my breath while you search for a reason that I am a crack-pot paid by the pharmaceutical industry…
As an informed and steadfast parent myself, I am disturbed that the 20-30% of people who agree with you are putting my children in danger as well as their own.
Once again, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE linking autism to vaccines! This is completely false and a lie. It is untruthful, dishonest, and down right insulting to people who actually work with people in the autistic spectrum.
Certainly you should have the freedom to make the health choices your choose and reap the consequences, both good and bad, from those choices. At the same time, if you act contrary to peer reviewed medical studies and are deemed to pose a health threat, you should not be allowed to be in contact with the general population. If your choices pose a health threat you should have to live in quarantine.
With regards to the concern over foreign DNA - you consume foreign DNA every time you eat. Even if you’re vegan, you’re getting plant DNA. What of it?
You don’t speak for all Farkers on this.
http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/08/bill-gates-polio-vaccine-program-caused-47500... You are so wrong. It’s a good thing I live in such a small population. Therefore you don’t need to worry about us infecting you. In encourage you, vax away. My foolish foolish liberal comment was in the context of Dorit blurting out how the stae has the authority to remove anyone’s children. It is BS and I wouldn’t ever stand for it. The state is not my child’s caregiver. They are my children, they belong to no one in a governmental institution. You just missed the point. You say a tiny tiny portion of profits, I think that is one of the most outlandish statements yet. Why won’t anyone address my concerns regarding the use of human diploid derived from abortted fetal cells? I don’t want to inject that into my healthy children! What about this fact is so incomprehensible to you? I again, am not the only one. You guys are just sitting their in your false authority and trying to make my words mean nothing. Well, try harder, because I’m coming from an open mind, you hpguys are just insulting, condescending and this mantra you have regarding all authoritive as if you are the only ones who are in the know….come on, change your tactic. Again, never getting anywhere because your camp just falls apart. My dr. Doesn’t even act this authoritive and allows me to contribute to the dialogue. There is something wrong with your approach. You have authority of your own house, b As I do mine, I draw the line with anyone superseding that authority.
“I believe in Jesus Christ and I believe living in America affords me the opportunity to be all of those things. I don’t live in a PC world, as you obviously do not live in a PC world for the things you spit out at me. ” ….and there it is! I choose to ignore your “science” in favor of my 2000 year old book of jewish fairy tales. “with your illusionary self imposed authority,” sounds like the pot calling the kettle black…
Certainly you should have the freedom to make the health choices your choose and reap the consequences, both good and bad, from those choices. At the same time, if you act contrary to peer reviewed medical studies and are deemed to pose a health threat, you should not be allowed to be in contact with the general population. If your choices pose a health threat you should have to live in quarantine.
Reading alarmist articles based on pseudo-science and listening to Jenny McCarthy does not constitute “extensive research”. Considering yourself an “informed person” without any background in either science or medicine is laughable. You’ve endangered your child, and any other child your precious little disease vector comes into contact with. If you really want the right to keep your kids vaccine free, for reasons other than a severe allergy to those vaccines, then we as a society deserve the right to isolate your child completely on a desert island in the middle of nowhere. If you want to be superstitious about vaccination, then fine. Do not insult the intelligence of the medical community by pretending that your baseless opinions have any grounding in factual science.
Apprantly there’s a mod deleting some selected posts. Too bad because Sunshine’s craziness (though most like a troll), was fun to read.
I could care less about McCarthy, I’ve been down this mindset since before she even posed for playboy. Your comments are so typical. I have a stack of pubmed that your camp dissects to further your own view point. Which is why I don’t present evidence anymore. I’m just not vax ing and it seems to really annoy the hell out of you.
With regards to human diploid: http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/vaccine-components/human-fetal-li... It seems like you’ll take anything that is contrary to your views as “conspiracy”, so I’m not sure if that link will help. It makes clear that they are not continually aborting fetuses. And that the diploid cells in question are used to grow the attenuated virus, but that the cells themselves are not put into the vaccine. The virus grown in the cells is harvested and further processed before being put into the vaccine. So, to be clear, no human diploid cells will be present in the vaccine or injected into anyone receiving the vaccine.
No trolling here, what an ass for even stating such a thing! You label me a troll because I won’t cow tail to your opinions, false science or I should say dishonest science and I reject any of your self imposed authority! Not a troll, just a different view point. You guys need some more innovative ways to come up with if ever you aspire to a meaningful dialogue!
I know the aborcet cell line is decades old, it is still derived from aborted baby’s! Wether then or now I care not, it still is what it is!!! Good grief. If these vaccines are so crucial and effective, is there anyway to culture and manufacture these vaccines without deriving them from aborted fetal cells? Is that such a crazy notion? Come on….wether they are in the end product, matters nothing, they were still used and someway are infused into the vaccine. They are not just extracted miraculously. Why are they necessary for the vaccine production? I will never ever participate in the vaccine machine!
*it’s cow tow. I think. And I’d say we’re less annoyed by your choice to not vax (though we clearly question it) and more annoyed with how you keep making sweeping statements, but refuse to back them up. Like you’re above it because you did it once before or something. The vaxxer side is backing up their claims. Time for you to step up or bow out Sunshine.
The link I posted answers all of those questions about why human diploid cells are used. I encourage you to read it. And no, it’s not miraculous. They extract the virus from the cell. Kind of like taking a crayon out of a box.
Dimensio, as for the “discredited” doctor, please get up to date on current news. There have been changes in Wakfield’s status, and his research, which was on GI issues, has been replicated. As for the “model”, the only people who listen to her are those who are pro vaccine. They like to delude themselves that people who do not vaccinate, don’t do any research and would take avice from a stripper. This is a delusion.
As your posts reflect an air of authority, which is so not recognized by myself personally….I don’t debate anymore, I’ve seen what you do with a debate. The aggressive and rude manner in which you debate is a headache. I’ve made my decisions based on sound research and can site the same sources as yourself. I already know how the debate works, you call me a troll, I come back with more sound proof, you comment rudely before you even bother to read it, or continue through the research. I know your game and the futility that is is. You are a bunch of miserable offensive and superior authority. Let’s see, I do have research from the same sourced info as you, I already stripped you of any authority in my personal life and I’ve already made my decision …twenty years ago. The only reason I ever indulged the debate was to present with evidence a science to help you not be so absolute in your dishonest statements. Your camp is not capable of a respectful and truthful dialogue. Again, at this point it boils down, I give no authority yo any of you and I can actually read and process and conclude all on my own without your slanted, funded or agenda pushing doma!
The fetal DNA you speak of is once again just a sham argument. I tried to steer clear of the abortion debate because it really has nothing to do with vaccines. Yes, many decades ago an aborted fetus’ stem cells were used to grow future generations in a petri dish that are sometimes then digested for particular enzymes and chemicals to be used in other products. Once again, to those of us in the scientific community(read: informed) who actually know what this is, as opposed to someone who reads an ingredient list and just regurgitates it for affect, it is not a scary ingredient. Because, once again, if you knew anything about the human body and DNA, once it, DNA is in the body it is immediately digested by both extracellular and intracellular enzymes, so that the smaller pieces can be recognized by immunoglobins or directly sensed by leukocytes to either stimulate an immune response or be digested inside the cell. Instead of feebly trying to act like you know anything about immunology and disease why don’t you take a class and educate yourself. And online websites written by Joe-Bob don’t count. My authority is derived from 200+ years of steadfast employment of the scientific method and peer-reviewed, publish studies. Not to mention 10+ years of academia, and another 15 years of lab work. I’ll ask again - “Where does your authority come from?” How was your “expertise” obtained? -PS, you know…everything on the internet is true!
Sunshine is a true warrior for trying to inform you idiots. People who buy into things like ‘medical research’, ‘consensus’, ‘peer reviewed’, or ‘medical professionals’ as meaningful qualifiers do not understand the level to which the Ivaxinati have managed to control all published and available sources of information. The fact that literally no ‘credible’ source supports SUnshines viewpoint is just validation of how right she is. She is absolutely correct that we should be terrified of the statistically insignificant risks that invalidated research showed vaccines to be, relative to the very real and measurable risks that pertussis, polio, measles, mumps, etc. pose.
You don’t want to vaccinate your kids? Fine. But you had BETTER keep your disgusting, disease-ridden brats away from my newborn baby. Move away, move far away from everyone. Because what you are too stupid to realize is that your choice is a death sentence to other people.
All you antivaxxers need to go off by yourself in your own special city where you are not allowed to travel out of. That way you can keep your crippling disease to yourselves, smart people can stay healthy, and everyone will be happy.
And again, you accuse me of spouting out the same easy argument all the while and yet your reply is the same! Human diploid, mouse bargain cells, monkey RNA, antifreeze, aluminum, formaldehyde, polysorbate, which has been admitted to have cancer virus. The sick list goes on and on. The EPA, WHO, CDC have all concurred that these are all neurotoxic. The amount used in these vaccine production maybe…MAYBE an allowable amount, but when you take and inject a newborn with multiple doses or even over the course of a year, the amounts of it all are toxic. Gardasil has been banned in several countries. In America it has been scheduled for boys, we Hen all along I was crazy and thought it was for the prevention of cervical cancer…but now the dogma is hip eighteens, it’s now so boys can protect themselves from one to three strains of HPV. Now they are discussing giving it to newborns. Sick!!! Just like the hep B vax…I would never subject my kid to such a mindless thing, I don’t carry hep b, and my infant has no risk of acquiring it. Anthrax to be pushed on kids soon. No thanks. It is insane that you continue arguing your points and again, you will dismiss every single thing I say, but you don’t even stoop at that, you start name calling and that whiny tone in your voice comes in loud and clear through your keyboard. No to vaccines… With all of the many vaccines we now hopave on the average vax schedule, why in the world is cancer, diabetes, autism, guillan barre, fibromyalgia, death, SIDS, allergies on the rise in horrifying levels. It Ofcourse is all rhetorical as you have proven to fail a reasonable dialogue. Again, it is a seriously personal choice. With rational reasoning, one might sit back and say…hey, if your so confident. N the protection these vaccines give, then why are you so concerned about my unvaccinated child? You can’t have it both ways! Instead of manufacturing more unnecessary vaccines, why not apply your time and resources to unlocking the mysteries of why all this disease is on the rise in spite of your vaccine programs! I personally believe these third world countries would fare a whole lot more if we went in and provided means for better sanitizer ion and hygiene and nutrition. To see a picture of an emancipated child receiving a vaccine is a crime against humanity. Water, food and hygiene are far better than any vaccine you could administer. You people have it so very wrong!
Treats, on the topic is Ancedotals …I ABSOLUTELY count them among my research. You either believe what you say, or you are so easily brainwashed. To see what I have seen with my own eyes, and not count the story if the parents who has a dead or vaccine damaged child would be of the highest ignorance, and when my friend lost her child to SIDS 14 hours post vaccines…I did it a travesty that you could accept sudden infant death syndrome as a cause of death. Shows your lying, ignorant and narrow mind. I personally need more than SIDS as a cause of death. Let’s dig into that a little big more….if SIDS is the cause y death isn’t good enough, what caused the SIDS? How about jthe toxic vaccine that was injected just hours prior. How about you read a vaccine insert to the possible side affects and dangers. It’s all listed right there. Including guillan barre, SIDS, autism, and the list goes on….say what you want, but you either lie or are flat willfully ignorant and sitting in a place thinking you have a say over wether or not I should vax my child. Audacity indeed.
Why engage the fact-immune? “Do not bother trying to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.” Anyone who has *actually* done the research knows vaccines are as safe as anything can be in an imperfect world. If someone claims to have “done the research” and reached a different conclusions, there’s a few possibilities: a)They’re lying about the research they’ve done. b)They’re incapable of understanding what they’ve read. c)They cannot tell valid research from invalid research. None of these are likely to be changed by comments on a message board. Indeed, studies have shown that the more evidence you show against a firmly held belief, the more people cling to that belief — the human brain, once invested in a wrong idea, keeps throwing neurons at it, the way people keep buying a bad stock because they can’t accept they’ve wasted their money so far.
Shaking head: The difference from the plant DNA you eat and the human DNA in vaccines is that it is bound to an adjuvant (toxic irritant) which trains your body’s immune system to react to it. But your own body also contains human DNA. So, can you see the problem with training your immune system to attack human DNA? This could very well be the cause of the huge increase in auto-immune conditions such as MS, arthritis, lupus, fibromyalgia, diabetes, etc.
so the only research that is viable is one that comes to your same conclusion. thats what makes your side so lunatic. i agree that sunshine has a right to choose or not regarding vaccines and any medical procedures. there are a few comments that seem rational in this thread, but the majority or ridiculous and offensive comments come from the pro vax camp. what a bunch of narrow nuts i agree with sunshine that the state has no authority when it comes to superseding parental rights. you people are just looking for a fight.
Lady, your whole “pharmaceutical industry agenda” argument is even dumber than you are. They will wind up with far more of your money when your kids get sick from an easily prevented disease than they will from the pittance that the vaccines cost. The best way to keep money out of their hands, if that’s what your so bent on, is to vaccinate your kids!
Not quite. The only research that is viable is research that is conducted using scientific standards. Since this poor woman can’t even *spell* some of the chemicals she lists, I think it’s safe to say that her “research” is not viable. Baseless opinion does not have the same merit in an argument as proven fact. Your argument that the state does not have a right to intervene in these matters is foolish. If her choice to not vaccinate her children only had potential to injure her children, and her children alone, then you *might* have an argument, although the state has an interest in protecting minors from parents who do harm to their children. If she chose, as a parent, to feed her children Doritos as their only source of nutrition, would you claim that it is her right? Of course not. Sadly, her decision has the ability to inflict harm not just on her children, but to anyone her children come in contact with. This is the same reason that driving recklessly is a crime. You’re not just endangering yourself. The parental rights you seem so concerned about the state ‘superseding’ does not include the right of some ignorant, uninformed parent to put everyone else in danger of contracting a serious, yet easily prevented disease.
Did you know that too much SUNSHINE is bad for you? It’s true! Overexposure to SUNSHINE causes cancer. Luckily there are ways to mitigate the harmful effects of SUNSHINE. Reduce exposure to SUNSHINE. Protect yourself from SUNSHINE br using a protective balm of logic, reason, and sanity to filter out it’s harmful rays.
“through extensive research, I choose to not vaccinate my children!” If you chose not to vaccinate your children, your research was clearly not extensive enough. You seem to appreciate the “big pharma’s out to get me” angle, so consider this; does the pharmaceutical industry make more money from vaccinating a child against polio once, or from the supporting medications and devices that child will need to maintain his/her life after being crippled by the illness? “Big pharma” is actually making MORE money off of you because your children aren’t vaccinated. How about that for conspiracy? You’ve been tricked. You’re the sucker, and they’re counting on the pride you feel over accomplishing “extensive research” to keep you their patsy and your children as their lifelong customers.
Sunshine, I am very thankful I was vaccinated as a child and that almost everyone around me was vaccinated as well. People used to be scared to death of things like polio and for good reason. It is a devastating disease. Many other diseases have been prevented due to vaccines. I am too young to know anyone who suffered from polio. Do you know of anyone who had it? Probably not and the reason why is because of vaccinations. Please, do some research yourself and keep an open mind. I hope your kids stay healthy, but it may take one of them becoming severely ill for you to see the light.
Th far reaching arrogance of most of your comments are really pitiful especially when you speak on matters of my ignorance or the states authority. I just doesn’t matter…none of this matters. You will never successfully insult me into submission. Wether I can spell or not. Or wether or not in all actuality is is a failed auto correct, just doesn’t matter. Keep your head in the sand, keep on strong arming and keep on with your arrogance, it does nothing but expose the indulgent an arrogant authority you operate under. My research is sound, it just doesn’t coincide with yours. My children will never be thrown on the chop block for statistics and study. You argue that my children will need expensive medical costs and in affect fund the pharma business…no ….I beg to differ, they will not. As I have stated, I employ the proper ingredients to assure them of their health. If the state is so certain they are supreme authority iver the unvaccinated children in America….then why haven’t they sounded the alarm and come seize thise unvaccinated children? My guess is….they know better and they also know the crime it would be. It would be civil war! I don’t trust a government who has taken a vaccine, injected a population with disease and then covered it up…the tuskeegee experiments, which is just one example of the atricity committed by the powers that be…all in the name if science. You people are ridiculous to the tenth power!
http://experimentalvaccines.org/eugenics/ Open your eyes! It’s not a conspiracy…a conspiracy is when there is no evidence…there is more than enough evidence. I implore you pro vax people…vax away. You deserve it and are part of the problem.
What a dumb thing to say…don’t you know vitamin D is essential for good health and the most pure form of vitamin D is uninhibited sunshine!!! Sun block causes more cancer than it prevents. You want natural protection against harmful exposure, ramp up your dark colorful berry intake and think about using some coconut oil. Smh at the blatant disrespect and arrogance.
Give up guys. She actually believes that “chemtrails” are real. This is the level of weapon’s grade derp you are dealing with. You will never convince her that there is a difference between a scientific theory and uneducated speculation. She is not capable of comprehending the difference. Evidence is useless because anything that does not support her position is immediately assumed to be from evil sources. The only thing that might ever convince here is watching her own child cough his or her lungs out for 6 months when they get pertussis because they were not vaccinated. It will take that extreme level of pain and suffering to cut through the derp and paranoia.
No, evidence is convincing, you just never present any! I have a library full of evidence, but you guys just can’t wrap your brand around any of it because it does not fit in the narrative that some haughty professor shoved down your throat. Little non thinking minions who have been fully indoctrinated. What a shame. You will be proven wrong, you hav already been proven wrong, you just haven’t woken up to it! Mindless parroting of people who you feel are admirable. Just like sheep… My people suffer for a lack of knowledge comes to mind… Keep in mind, I’m just one composed of very many who have had enough of your slanted, false science and blatant cover ups. There are many me’s in the world! Ponder that
If it’s all about health freedom, why are you lambasting other people for vaccinating their children? They have the freedom to do that, as you have pointed out. You do your thing, we’ll do ours, and life will go on.
Lemon juice also curdles milk. Lots of things curdle milk.
I encourage those who insist to vaccinate. Do so…what I said was, these people who exert a false authority, have no right dictating the choice I’ve made to not vaccinate. Do you have a comprehension problem or do you always grab the tail end and ignorantly jump in with your two cents?
Amen to that, Truth :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5is16A8pfw&autoplay=1 So, when you’re looking at your sky and you see it go from clear blue…which is a rarity anymore, at least for any length of time…and your sky turns hazy, metallic and ugly…you just think that’s normal? You call me the quack, but you refute even thise things that have been revealed as truth through freedom of information requests…or whistleblowers. Your luck I even bother to indulge your ignorance…willful at that!

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